Tesla Europe: 700+km (436mi) range model 3

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> Would be second in us market only to the lucid air. No, this is not a new model. This is just the RWD Long range model 3 that's already available in the U.S. It does not have more range....Europe doesn't use EPA and has a different test (that results in higher numbers). Literally the exact same car will have 2 different range ratings in the different countries because they're using different tests. This car is literally already available in the U.S.

TiL. Thank you

Model 3 RWD standard range got a price drop to €41.000 in NL, from €43.490

This. And it’s a great example of how little people seem to understand different testing standards (and just how awful the WLTP standard is, even compared to the EPA standard which isn’t great). Same problem that leads some people to point out some “amazing” range figures from Chinese manufacturers simply due to CLTC not being great either.

Yup in CLTC this would probably be close to 1000km and the media would loos it's mind once again.

I don't think it would be that much more. But also, the tests are based on the average driver on the roads. In China, speed limits are generally lower, so more range. In the US, the opposite is generally true. Europe is somewhere in between when taken as a whole (Discounting the Autobahn). Personally I take the WLTP value and take off 33% for real world usable range.

Wow the Chinese still have much to learn this partnership between the west and east can be the emulation of a healthy sustainable business environment

> I don't think it would be that much more  “The Model 3 Long Range's CLTC estimate is 443 miles, while it's EPA rated at 342 miles”   Source:[Motortrend](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/chinese-ev-cars-vs-tesla-model-3-vw-id7-nio-et5-xiaomi-su7-zeekr-007/)  That’s 30% more compared to the EPA rated range. I’d call that “much more”.  > In China, speed limits are generally lower, so more range.  Speed limits in China are very close to the US actually, with [expressways being set to 120 km/h or 75 mph](https://wikitravel.org/en/Driving_in_China#:~:text=120%20km%2Fh%20(75%20mph,Highways%20built%20to%20expressway%20standards)), which is exactly what speeds limits tend to be on US highways (85 mph on very rare exceptions such as some highways in Texas). Do you have different sources that might back your claim though?

So what’s the range from 30% to 80% of battery?

That’s WLTP range.

Depends on the person. My car is pretty much bang on the EPA average. I do better than EPA in summer, worse than EPA in winter...but my overall is right on. But yeah, there's no singular range number that will apply to every situation.

Brother did you really think they would put a 700km battery in the model 3 AND it would still be RWD lmao The Model S is under 700 lol

Yeah the EPA changed the methodology for 2024 model years and later, and the numbers now seem more realistic. For anyone unfamiliar, testing must now be performed in the car’s default driving mode (ie standard, chill, ludicrous) when you turn on the car. For cars with no default mode (possibly applies to Tesla, but not sure), they’re tested in the highest range mode and the lowest range mode and average the results.

Model S on the 19 inch is 723km

Even before then it was fine. The only time I’ve missed EPA in cars from the last 10 years if when going 70+mph where all cars get less and less efficient. People can just be extremely aggressive drivers and then complain they don’t get EPA numbers.

EPA range on the model S is at 647km, your mileage will quite literally vary, but around 650 for a fresh battery seems reasonable on a MS on 19 inch.

It takes more than just highway driving into account.

Uh?

WLTP

50%...

€39.970 here in Belgium, so it qualifies for the €5000 credit. So a base model 3 costs €34.970 here. Never thought I’d see the day they got so cheap.

As a European, I have to agree. I can hit the EPA range and even beat it like you in the summer. That to me makes it pretty accurate and ultimately these will never be that perfect, it's also got to be a way to compare against other manufacturers. WLTP is far more optimistic and not achievable. The Chinese measurement is for the birds though I do think they have a reason for theirs being different. They spend a lot more time going slowly in traffic. So in China, with their driving pattern it probably is more realistic but it won't translate well at all in Europe or the USA.

My friend has 23 Model 3 RWD Long Range on 18s and it is a very nice highway cruiser. This has the same battery and motors but is more efficient due to aero. For people in Europe, this can do around 450km cruising at 130kmh, which is awesome. It really eeks out maximum range.

Right in which case velocity has a lot let of an impact (city driving) and their argument also falls apart.

The difference lies in percentage of time spent in each scenario (I have no numbers for this, only explaining the reasoning). If the average person i China spends 75% of their driving in cities, and the average person in the US spends 75% of their driving on the highway, that will be a massive range difference (again, these are arbitrary numbers, not taken from a source).

Down to €39.990 in Germany as well.

This is just WLTP range. You will never get this on the highway at normal highway speeds. Frankly, EVs, like ICE, should state city and highway range separately.

> again, these are arbitrary numbers, not taken from a source   So made up values that do not explain the difference between EPA and CLTC. Very useful, thank you. Do you actually have a reference to the different testing standards that would back up your argument, or is this all conjecture?

WLTP is more optimistic but also more consistent than EPA (looking at 1st gen Taycan as the worst offender). I’d prefer using a standard that is, well, standardized.

You want to engage more than just saying WLTP? Doesn't even have anything to do with what I just said.

The 723km is the WLTP measurement. And this LR RWD model 3 is also WLTP meaurement (from europe) you said the S isn’t even 700km but it is in WLTP

And all of the testing standards are complete nonsense

I consistently get the WLTP range or more on my 2019 Long Range RWD. In summer only of course, but on the highway at 100 km/h.

I literally just explained thought process behind how there can be a difference despite both countries having similar speed limits by providing an example. The intention was not to prove that there is a difference, but to show how there can be a difference. If you can find any study that shows these numbers then I would appreciate you showing them to me as I cannot find anything about it myself.

But they really aren't. I'm literally bang on EPA rating for the last 10,000 miles since I got my car. I live in an area with hills, mountains, and winter...I don't try to hypermile. EPA is dead on for me. If course no standard will be dead on for everyone....doesn't mean the test is nonsense though...it's just impossible to account for everyone's individual use case.

Solved. This should not even be a post besides announcing the LR RWD being offered in Europe

The EPA tests highway speed at 60mph. That’s nonsense. Especially because wind resistance increases so much and typical highway speed is 70mph.

I mean, it depends. 70mph is the highest speed limit in my state/ but int the real world you can't always hit it when there are 18 wheelers in the left lane going slower than that. Also, I saw out of spec reviews recently do their 70mph test for the newest awd long grange model 3, and it actually best its rated range at 70mph. Less aerodynamic vehicles like a hummer will be hit harder by the speed difference...but I know my car is still very efficient st 70mph.

Cltc p is passenger cycle https://dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/cltc.php EPA highway https://dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/hwfet.php EPA city https://dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/ftp75.php

> WLTP is more optimistic but also more consistent That just makes it more consistently wrong, instead of just occasionally. So I’d rather use EPA, thank you very much

> they’re tested in the highest range mode and the lowest range mode and average the results. That's interesting. So the existence of ludicrous mode severely hampers the official EPA ranges of Tesla vehicles, even if (say) <1% of all distance driven uses it?

I know the rules suggest "avoid editorialised titles", but it would be reasonable to allow some leeway for when headlines include test-cycle figures without context.

Do they generally have lower speed limits in Europe? And tend to do more city driving, vs Americans doing more freeway driving? That _could_ justify differing standards…

In Italy with some discounts it got to 30k€

I think I figured it out, it's 700+ kelonmeters.

Naah WLPT is pretty accurate in my experience. Also, these standards are mainly meant to provide a value you can use to compare, not necessarily to be realistic.

So what is wrong with WLTP? I feel that it hits the spot well in autumn, in the winter I can’t even get close to the WLTP readings, but in the summer my EV gets even more range than WLTP.

> Also, these standards are mainly meant to provide a value you can use to compare, not necessarily to be realistic. lol what? I need to know how the car performs in my daily life, therefore be realistic, it’s not like I’m going to be able to compare it to anything, especially as a first time EV buyer. Stop making excuses for how awful WLTP is.

>[https://youtu.be/Y4YjsuoeynQ?si=RUTrniu2kXx62Eq6&t=321](https://youtu.be/Y4YjsuoeynQ?si=RUTrniu2kXx62Eq6&t=321) How about that...model 3 RWD long range BEATS its epa range at 70mph. Guess it wasn't nonsense afterall. 384 miles at 70mph, despite the 362 mile EPA range.

But it's impossible to get a realistic range using a syntehtic test.

Yet one can be closer to realistic than others. And in fact, that’s the case.

I own a Model 3 RWD and it most certainly does not come close. My EPA estimate is 320mi and I get about 270mi.

Is it a standard range? Because 270 is about the rated range for the new ones...if you have an older long range rwd, then it's probably degraded slightly from new..also the older ones were less efficient and had no heat pump (so cold weather hurt their range more) also wheels, tires, and tire pressure can effect it. (Epa range is with the factory tires, not all tires have equal rolling resistance)

No, it’s none of that. It’s the unrealistic EPA rating. 95% of 320 is 304. I don’t live in a cold enough climate for heat pump to matter. Tires are 45psi.

Well the EPA rating is even more realistic. WLTP on my Highland LR with 18inch wheels is 421 miles. To hit that you’d need to get to 178Wh/mile. I stick to the limit but I’ve not got close to that. At best around the 200 mark and then only with more traffic slowing me down. Where as to hit the EPA range you need to hit 215Wh/mile. That I can do more regularly on a trip in the summer of maybe a bit better on occasions.