xorg enjoyer

gnome cant run in x11, x11 wins

https://ibb.co/hjBJ51Y

the picture with x11 should have a tear in the middle

it can tho?!

X11 already started tearing here and also X11 is bloated and insecure bro.

used to, but gnome just released gnome 50 and they said theyre removing x11 support for gnome 50

When I run wayland I get stuttering in \*some\* games and videos, but on the same hardware and driver the X11 runs buttery smooth. One day it will be there, but that day is not today. (I suppose it's more about xwayland rather than wayland explicitly.) Also needing to make a custom EDID instead of just a modeline to overclock my monitor isn't super great.

Let go. Go trough the five stages of grief. X11 is dead and buried.

I have been using Wayland for the past year and I never encountered those issues even on Nvidia proprietary drivers.

Different hardware I suppose.

yea same i been running wayland on a few crappy/old laptops too never noticed it

X11 stuttered all the time for me. I use KDE, so I think they did some voodoo magic to get rid of screen tearing, but stutters were still an issue. Wayland still stutters sometimes for me, but it's much better than X ever was.

I personally have zero beef with people picking whatever display server and wm and desktop whatsoever. But I'm going Wayland, since X11 objectively is awful at handling multiple monitors with different refresh rates; plus unfocused apps not being able to get focused app's keypresses is cool :D

That's genuinely unfortunate, it sounds like it's buggy on your hardware, and I hope it's fixed at some point. Wayland doesn't generally cause stuttering. Plenty of people run it without such issues.

Zero-gui-isolation is calling

I tried it out on a second user I spun up about 3 months ago, and \~50% of my game library was nearly unplayable. It's a shrinking number, but it's still way to big for me to switch to it.

As someone who uses gimp and runs clip studio paint in wine, 100% agree, I had wayland crash gimp from moving windows and csp refused to resize in wine, no issue on x11, will use it until the system says no

Hmm, thinking about switching back to Wayland, but have they fixed the global hotkey problem yet? I regularly use Renderdoc and need the shortcut key to take a snap from the application I'm debugging. I remember there being a fix for push to talk on discord, so that's ok, but because Renderdoc is injected into another application it gets messy.

Wayland will be fine when we will have a real replacement for VNC

Anyone remember when Rasterman released a fork of libXaw that could be themed with XPMs? I feel like that might have been peak X11 ricing.

interesting nickname

Idk what W means but I use it

x11 should indeed die, But Wayland shouldn't replace it.

I agree, but I also think the Wayland one shouldn't be screen shareable in zoom/teams at the most inopportune times.

Not to say that this is helpful to you in any way, but the Steam Deck uses a wayland compositor (gamescope) to run games, and it works exceptionally well, and exceptionally smoothly. So there's nothing inherent about wayland that should be causing such issues, and maybe over time it gets figured out for your hardware and software.

I'll corroborate this. I have genuinely tried Wayland, and every time it has been completely unusable. I got stutters that were longer than a minute (yes, I timed it) and the most outlandish [graphical bugs](https://i.imgur.com/MMrkara.jpg) that I don't even know how to begin to describe. This was on an Intel N100 and i7-920 both on integrated graphics, which are both mature and very normal platforms which have no excuse for being unsupported.

i keep hearing this but all i had to do is install the portal thing and everything works fine eversince. but then i note that i dont use zoom or teams, so wayland cant run microslop teams, and zoom = wayland is better

MATE is awesome

I've had one (1) issue with Wayland, ever. It was SDDM not handling VT switching correctly. Easily resolved by... changing the damn DM. X11 issues? 1: Smooth scrolling. Utterly awful to use X11 on a touchpad. 2: Bla bla bla security. 3: Spaghetti code.

Only on nvidia, I have never seen tearing on the desktop with either Intel or AMD graphics... only seen it with video players and xv, but in compositing window managers, only on nvidia hardware (maybe AMD back in like 2008)

And what should? TTY? Punch cards like in Ye elder days? We gonna print the display server instead?

why is the wayland logo so fucking ugly

x11 apologists in denial rn

I can't use X11 DE's anymore because of this.

I want to see what Phoenix can do once it's ready

And Plasma 6.6* is going to lose x11 support as well. *I meant to say 6.8

https://youtu.be/BN-sW3Y31AY

X11 has support for TearFree

What Plasma 6.6 already released and i use it with Xorg

Hey, what is my ricing doing there?

X11 won't be dropped until Plasma 6.8 at the soonest.

Depends on your DE/WM, iirc it has a protocol in Wayland and even GNOME supports it. In GNOME applications can ask to add global hotkeys and you will get a popup to allow or deny it.

Sorry, I meant to say 6.8.

FUCK

There isn't and there will never be global hotkeys in Wayland sadly. There are many applications still.broken under Wayland, but they are "niche", like Renderdoc, KiCad or any multi-screen + multi-window applications like most DAWs. Wayland devs insist that those shouldn't be fixed and are somehow invalid application UI. Games also have 1 to 3 additional frame of input latency under wayland, but this is another thing people praising Wayland make a conscious effort to ignore. Wayland also insists on breaking automation completely. The WLR protocols fix most of the automation issues, but they require a WLR based compositor and neither GNOME nor KDE support those protocols. Once our application is ported to Wayland, we'll pretty much have to tell everyone not using a wlroots based compositor to eat bricks I suppose. Under XWayland, we still have what we need in the sense that there are workarounds, but we won't be able to keep using XWayland forever. I think Wayland is currently castrating application developers. They aren't making any effort to support workflows that have been used for decades, they are openly hostile to anyone who wants their applications to work the same across platform. There is no way to justify that an application can no longer save and load window layouts across multiple monitors and workspaces. You can't justify removing all possibilities for automating a series of inputs either. Most QA have tests that needs simulated inputs. Edit: Ultimately, getting rid of X11 is a good thing, but I don't like how Wayland is handled at all.

it's the Wayland logo

Wayslop🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮XORG FOREVER🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯💯

I use X11 because it can be stable (as i saw on nobara) but it requires extensive driver setup I think. Driver setup I DO NOT WANT TO DO, and if i run it anyway, it has severe performance problems including glitches and freezes.

Unfocused app not being able to get focused app keypress is a good DEFAULT. Wayland is missing a "Permission and Whitelist" system. I may want to have an application be able to receive some specific key combination when any focused app gets it. For example, there could be a whitelist of applications who are allowed to receive key presses when Ctrl or Alt are pressed.

Reaper and my plugins are the reason I dual boot mint with cinnamon. On wayland, the plugins are fullscreen and even if you resize the window, the rendering does not resize.

\> There isn't and there will never be global hotkeys in Wayland sadly. [https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/doc-org.freedesktop.portal.GlobalShortcuts.html](https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/doc-org.freedesktop.portal.GlobalShortcuts.html)

Is there a fork besides MATE that works with Xorg?

I installed Wayland a month ago -> found out that i cant go over 60Hz with NVIDIA -> uninstalled it So sadly no Wayland for me :(

well, to me, wayland and x11. are practically the same, i use the distro defaults. like if its Raspbian (trixie) its wayland, if its Raspbian (anything under bookworm) its x11

That’s been fixed for so long I honestly forgot it was ever a thing. Were you running Debian with a GeForce 340 or something?!

Nope, Fedora GNOME with RTX 5070

im a wm + a bazillion directories in ~/.config type of person, so no idea. also MATE might be discontining x11 support far into the future. i guess its between i3wm & openbox with tearing™ or xwayland in gnome.

A lot of this reads like outdated info or is phrased in a way that misses the point. Saying X11’s way of doing things is fine is like saying N64-era self-modifying code was a good long-term model. Sure, it worked, but it was fragile, conceptually hard to wrap ones head around, and a nightmare for anyone who didn’t write it (including emulator devs later on). X11 gave applications a ton of implicit power, global input, control over other windows, etc. But that’s exactly what makes it unsafe and difficult to maintain in a modern, multi-developer ecosystem. Wayland tightening those boundaries isn’t "castrating developers", it’s moving away from a design philosophy that is hard to work with and towards one that is easier to scale by a group of people.

I’ve been enjoying River

Dumb and dumber

tmux /s lol

say whatever you want but xlibre is evolving. rapidly. even some of BSDs implement it as a default server. Question is: will KDE fix all issues with Wayland before August and destroy xlibre or no? We'll see

I love xorg. It allows me to see everything OP types and sees. Truly a Marvel.

never

based legacy code enjoyer!

i found it randomly. thanks!

you wish!

I still wouldn't consider Wayland to be in its maturity. Aside from KDE Plasma and GNOME, most other feature-complete desktop environments still have only experimental or downright nonexistent Wayland support. Mint is one of the most recommended beginner-friendly distros and all three of its default DEs are X11-only for now. I daily-drive LXQt myself and Wayland is kinda strange here. LXQt is modular and you're supposed to use any window manager you want with it. But there's still a very little choice there.

Cinnamon forked from GNOME more recently than MATE, and there are no released plans to drop X11 support.

Yes, as always the only possible alternative to something like this is the oldest, stupidest shit possible. Xlibre exists. Beyond that, if we are dead set on fucking over x11 compat anyway, why are we still sticking with the display server paradigm at all? "Framebuffer" is not just some old limited tech but in fact is a pretty core component of computer graphics, even with advanced GPUs et al. Modern graphics drivers hide the gory details of advanced features and capabilities beyond some universal standard like linear VESA, but conceptually the framebuffer is still there. It's not hard for their drivers to utilize it over a pile of x11 or wayland code as an anachronistic "display server" middleman. The Enlightenment project and Enlightenment Foundation library for example did/does support building directly to framebuffer interface for its DE/graphics library and bypassing a display server all together. It's even used in some capacity commercially by the projects biggest corporate sponsor, Samsung, as a part of their Tizan OS. One of my current side projects is to build an X/Waylandless system and instead utilize FB directly myself just to see how feasible it would actually be. But hey, us cranky ass gray beards only ever complain for no reason just because we hate change.

I tried wayland recently b/c my brother wanted to get into Linux and I figured I'd install the newest stuff. Having put this off for so many years b/c I've had no reason to switch personally. I have never been so disappointed by software ever. It ran like a buggy, inferior, beta product. Will be sending reinforcements to the X-Libre guy when I make some money

I saw more artifacts on my 5 hours of wayland than my 10 years of arch linux X11 install. What WM/apps did you use to get screen tearing?

Man you r sure living in past

This is funny ngl

nvidia user spotted

Wayland users when you tell them if they also have a compatibility layer for LinkedIn

As much as I hate Microslop, VNC is literally crap. RDP is the best option and guess what also does not work properly with wayland.

Linusfucknvidia.jpg

Xorg is more reliable for now so I’ll stick to that

no? their marco compositor only support x11 and isnt gonna go anywhere Never heard of any news about MATE discontining x11 support

I'm pretty much stuck on X11, and I do really prefer it since I'm running some old ass hardware and Wayland didn't work really well.. And I need some darn old software for my setup, so it's sad that Xorg is dying :/

Xorg under XWayland will still stay tho

KDE Wayland allows insecure global hot keys for X11. I enabled it and everything works. I just wanna do my job. For Wayland-native, wait for XDG global hotkeys.

nvidia-settings --assign CurrentMetaMode="nvidia-auto-select +0+0 { ForceFullCompositionPipeline = On }"

I do face a problem with sunsine though, whenever i run it, it asks for permission for screen sharing. But in popup instead of an application name i get a unknown application so i am not able to allow it through hyprland config. So i had to keep the permissions off , which i don't want.

It'll probably never die and go away for good but I do wonder when we'll hit the stage of largely redundant; when 99% of use cases have native implementations and it's only the super specific legacy cases still holding on. You know like Java web apps for the last give or take 10 years.

i don't know, try asking in the hyrpland community they will tell you how to do it or if its a bug or not, they fix bugs very quickly

I'm running X on my X230

It never teared for me. Arguably Wayland is way more bloated and oversecured unnecessarily

gixgears gives me flashbacks

That solution came "later" relative to the other DDX drivers

Nono, I haven't had any issues with nvidia and wayland XD

just give up, x11 is dead

this aint 2020 brochacho 😭🙏

Can someone explain glxgears to me? I mean, what is really tested? The simulation is very simple

have you seen the gnome logo

Replace Xorg with Xlibre and you’re golden

`xwayland-satellite` should gain enough momentum. When that time happens, it should be both completely optional and easy to maintain in a long run. The opposite way can also be true. If Wayland hits somewhat enough feature parity with X.org that keeps majority of applications running without compromising the architecture, it may as well be part of the specs and well-behaved X.org applications can be preserved forever without anybody even notice.