Opinions on phev v ev for my circumstances

We are New to ev game like yourself …we just put in an order for a Jaecoo j5 …we can insure it for $450 per year, with a $2500 excess …that’s the best quote so far we’ve found (that’s significantly cheaper than our desiel ute with same excess ) …it can squeeze out 500km from its 60kw/h battery (if you sit on 80km/h & enjoy the scenery on a road trip — although I perhaps wouldn’t recommend doing that out on the Nullarbor lol) …atm it’s $37k drive away …solid reviews & great price, for 8yr warranty on battery & car …the first road trip we plan to do in it, is across the nullabur :))…could definitely tow a small trailer with it but not a caravan though 🤔

Very well researched! Maybe the only thing you've missed is that you can put a roofbox on a J5 or an EX5 if the main issue is slightly too small.  Sounds like a PHEV really would be the most sensible option for you. Consider that fuel goes bad over time so even if you're driving in pure EV mode and not very often the car itself will burn some fuel anyway to try and keep itself in shape. You might use more fuel in pure EV mode than you expect (altough it will still be minimal compared to a petrol car). In time I hope charger density increases even through the Nullarbor.  I want to believe a full EV would be good enough ...soon. But it does sound like a PHEV would do you well.

A PHEV won't be cheap to maintain. I think you are better off getting an efficient straight up petrol car.

Test drove it twice and was genuinely impressed by it

We just ordered a J5 too. It looks like they are very popular. The sales lady told me they are selling 17 a day nationwide. Our insurance quote was $75 a month with $1350 excess. I haven't found insurance to be any more expensive than an ICE car. When do you get your car?

Google EV chargers on Nullarbor. There are a few along there now. I believe the biggest distance between them in 250km.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianEV/s/UvguDUn7Ty

…awsm!…what colour outside/inside did you get?…our dealer said likely 3-4weeks wait but could be longer with what’s going on internationally atm …

why twice? Lol…what did u decide on?

We went with the grey with black interior. Yeah they told us mid to end of April.

In an EV, the Nullarbor crossing isn’t impossible anymore. From SA → WA: - Ceduna Foreshore hotel (150 kW) - Yalata Roadhouse (50 kW), 204km away from Ceduna - Nullarbor Roadhouse (40 kW), 92km away from Yalata - Border Village roadhouse, SA side (80 kW), 184km away from Nullarbor Roadhouse - Mundrabilla Roadhouse (50 kW), 78km away from Border Village roadhouse - Wedgetail Inn hotel (22 kW DC), 207km away from Mundrabilla. I deliberately skipped Madura in between because the DC charger there is often broken - Caiguna roadhouse (30 kW), 66km away from Wedgetail Inn - Balladonia (50 kW), 181km away from Caiguna - Norseman (150 kW), 191km away from Balladonia - Coolgardie (150 kW), 167km away from Norseman - Southern Cross (150 kW), 187km away from Coolgardie - Merredin (150 kW), 110km away from Southern Cross - Northam (125 kW), 163km away from Merredin - After Northam, it’s not far to Perth with plenty of chargers everywhere. Even the biggest gaps are less than 220km - well within the range of any modern EV today. You’ll be fine with a Leapmotor B10, MG S5 or Geely EX5. Personally my vote goes to the updated Geely EX5 with the 68 kWh battery for its space, efficiency and easy to use software. Suspension may be a bit bouncy though. The outgoing EX5 used to have a somewhat short range (probs just 300km real world highway driving, still enough to cover the biggest gaps of the Nullarbor crossing), but the new one has a bigger battery to give it more legs. Charging curve is acceptable, but not the fastest. You’ll generally still spend around 30 mins for a charge from 10-80% at a 150 kW charger that can saturate the car’s max speed. It’s also one of the few cars in its segment that has 3-phase AC charging (11 kW). The MG S5 is similarly sized, but has a very good charging curve and quite decent software/driving assistance. Interior might be a bit spartan but build quality is still good. Where it shines over the EX5 is its flatter charging curve and being rear wheel drive. Unfortunately it does not have camp mode (unlike the EX5 and B10, which has it). The Leapmotor B10 is smaller, but has an amazing charging curve, good driving dynamics (being rear wheel drive) and decent software. They’re kinda new here though, and their Stellantis backing/ownership isn’t helping either (all the other Stellantis brands like Chrysler, Alfa Romeo, Peugeot, Citroen, Jeep are not doing well here either). I generally dislike the J5 because its software and driver assists are quite trash, and it has very poor regen control/modulation. It’s cheap for a reason. Also, are you going to tow a caravan across the Nullarbor? If you are, it’s going to cut your range by half or more, unless you take it slow (say, 90 kph or so) to reduce range loss from increased drag. Some additional notes: - the Sealion 7’s boot isn’t that big due to the heavily sloping roofline. It significantly restricts what you can put there. The car’s efficiency is also quite poor (often averaging well above 20 kWh/100km on highways), and the battery cooling system isn’t as robust as in other cars like the Xpeng G6. - Xpeng G6 is a damn good car but their local distributor is litigating against the carmaker at the moment if I’m not mistaken. Eventually it does seem like the carmaker will take full control of local operations though. But for the moment, after sales is going to be a bit naff. - You can't always count on roadhouses/rural fuel stations being stocked with fuel nowadays (the Iran war just gave us a nasty reminder of that). Fuel contamination is also a thing. On the other hand, electricity is never affected by contamination, and electricity does not have different grades.

Because we were really close to pulling the trigger and wanted to drive it again. We went with a Kia EV5 because we need a bit more space. I also found the seats in the Kia were bigger and fit me better - also the Kia doesn’t have a centre console for my knees to bang against (one of the few downsides of the J5) I really did want the J5 to work. I would love one as a second car one day. I was honestly super impressed with it - not just good value but a good car in general.

I have driven across the Nullarbor in a PHEV Outlander, and as you'd expect its about the same as doing it in a petrol car. Just drive, no planning required (OK I did get caught out arriving at a roadhouse just after the kitchen closed). I haven't done it in an EV, but I think it is not too difficult now with new fast chargers added and will probably only get better. I suspect if you are happy with having to plan ahead and maybe spend an extra day charging if things go wrong, that an EV would be the better option now. That said, lots of short drives with an occasional Nullarbor crossing is really an ideal use case for PHEV. I got frustrated with the short range of mine (40km) and worried about battery life when working a small battery very hard. I now have an Atto3 and would happily use that if I need to cross the Nullarbor again. The BYD PHEVs with 100km range would be a lot better than the Mitsubishi I think. You shouldn't need to be budgeting for a battery in 10 years with either, any more than budgeting for an engine or gearbox failure out of warranty in an ICE. It can happen, but its not expected.

Thank you for your reply. I was considering and may go back to considering the atto 3.  They have a new model coming that claims 500km range. Thats the ideal minimum for me. I take it down to real world highway, then take off some more to account for being fully loaded, then take off some more to account for some range loss over time. Kind of worst case scenario, how low could range get before, with current charging stations across the nullabor, i would have too much range anxiety to visit my kids.  Without actual lived experience, i currently feel like 350km true worst case range makes me feel absolutely no anxiety.  Below that, esp below 300, i start physically feeling the "what ifs" (in my imaginary scenarios!).  But then i think of my lifetime of driving in this country and how many times ive pulled up to remote stations after the fuel light has been on for ages 😅.  99% of the time its been fine and we managed to figure out that 1% of the time we failed.  Thanks for reaasuring me that the battery is not a guaranteed replacement in the phev.  Also i would guess a 10 grand 2026 battery will be a lot less in 2036 so hopefully its not a big deal.

Thank you for your reply.  I did consider the fuel going bad but read that happens after 6 to 12 months so figured the trips across the nullabor would clean it out. I didnt consider (and struggle to wrap my head around), that the car makes its own decisions about petrol use haha.

Yep i read on w.a. side they have a program to ensure theres chargers at least every 200km and in s.a. the gaps have been mostly filled.

That annual insurance is great.  I think whats happening is i end up looking at too-big cars bc of certain features like the xpeng g6 long range which $63+ drive away and then wonder why the insurance is so high. Its at least in part to do with the price of the car.

Yeah, running the Nullarbor would do the job. Not owning a PHEV myself I can't be much more help, but I do know the manufacturers will publish a spec for fuel consumption when fully charged. I think for the Sealion 6 it was like 1.1L per 100km? So basically nothing. Just more than 0.

Thank you for your reply. Seeing it laid out that way makes my "range anxiety" less.   When i was younger stopping every 200km for 30 mins plus would have driven me around the bend but these days i physically need to anyway.  No i wouldnt be towing across th nullabor even if i got a car that could manage it no probs.  Caravan is at my kids house.  I would literally only be moving it into storage or another local site.  My kids have 4wds so they can move it for me or lend me a car.  Its just kind of irritating to get into 60+g vehicle territory and half of them are rated for 750kg BRAKED 😅 or 1500kg.  My brain is still back in the olden days when that price would only be spent on a landcruiser and one big reason for spending that much was its towing.

Thank you for the reply. If you see my reply could you tell me why you think the phev wonr be cheap?  Is it because of it having all the mech moving parts of a petrol car and then all the tech side too, both of which have their own issues.  I do think about that. The biggest problem with getting a straight petrol is lack of overnight aircon and capacity to keep car cooled for my cats while i go into servos etc.  In some phev or ev cars you can keep the aircon on all night or while in store (while having car locked). Sounds minor but it is a massive lifestyle benefit for me that i cant address any other way.  If i cant do that, i have to leave my cats home and it costs $800 per trip to have them cared for (plus stress) and i can sleep in my car comfortably whether its minus 5 or 30+ degree nights. There is no way around this with a petrol car.  Portable off grid battery set ups that allow 8 hours of aircon use are 10+grand, extremely big and heavy, and the aircon units that they can power are also big and somewhat ineffective.  So for me its like also buying a portable battery pack for aircon.

Make sure you order a RFID card (either Chargefox or Evie) and link them to the various charging apps (the card is interoperable with all the different charging providers), because starting the charger from the mobile app can be a bit iffy at times. A RFID card always works. If you charge up to 80%, you can probably do 300km between charges. That being said, I'd suggest strategizing your charge stops to take advantage of the fastest chargers. There are a couple that are quite slow (Wedgetail Inn and Caiguna), and are best avoided if possible. Based on the EX5's optimum curve and assuming 19 kWh/100km with a net usable capacity of 66 kWh, I would: \- Charge to 100% at Ceduna, enough charge to get to Nullarbor Roadhouse safely. \- At the Nullarbor Roadhouse's solar-powered chargers, charge to at least 55-60%. This'll get you to Border Village safely. \- At Border Village, charge up to 100% because the Mundrabilla charger may not be operational at times. That way, you can safely reach Wedgetail or Caiguna. \- I suggest staying the night in either Wedgetail or Caiguna and charge to 100% overnight while you sleep. That'll get you to Balladonia. \- At Balladonia, you can just charge to 80%. All chargers after this point all the way to Perth are fast and reliable, so you can just charge to 80% at each of them - with each stop taking no more than 30 mins usually.

Roof box will murder the range on an EV.

Someone else on Reddit with the same car told me it "wasn't that bad". Maybe about 10%? Although tbf this was a while ago and they also used a small trailer when camping. It could have been the trailer that had minimal impact. One was definitely worse than the other. In any case - the tone of the conversation was me saying the Atto felt too small for road-tripping with 4 people and their luggage and someone else saying "you can use a trailer/roofbox the range hit is not as bad as you might think". In either case still probably not a car I'd want to cross the Nullarbor in!

The current Atto will do 300 pretty reliably at 110. Substantially more, possibly 350km at 100, which is a nice speed to do on the Nullarbor since 95% of traffic is trucks or cars with trailers doing 100. Strong headwinds or rain can see it dropping below that. Dropping to 60kph will get you 480km range in an emergency, but not something you'd want to do a lot of on the Nullarbor. The tesla owners club has a great article on crossing the Nullarbor by EV, which also applies to non-teslas and has been kept up to date with chargers. Longest gap is 200km so no issue in an Atto3. [https://www.tocwa.org.au/2022/09/15/so-you-want-to-drive-an-ev-across-the-nullarbor/](https://www.tocwa.org.au/2022/09/15/so-you-want-to-drive-an-ev-across-the-nullarbor/) Could still be issues if a charger breaks down in the wrong place at the wrong time.