Waymo Recalls 3,000 Robotaxis After Failing to Stop for School Buses

Meanwhile FSD blasting past them every day no consequences

If this is necessary with a Level 4 system, imagine how unsafe a Level 2 system (which is what FSD is) is if the driver doesn't pay close attention.

Good for them. This is bad. They need to fix it.  They are fixing it.

I don't think Tesla recalled anything when that video with the flashing bus came out...

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Exactly. You can’t get rich in the way Elon is without getting your hands a little dirty.

To be clear, recall = software update.

It’s fine. It’s probably blasting mostly by school buses that carry non white kids. Leon approves.

With Waymos its a bug, with Teslas its a feature

Edolf

FSD 14 is wayyy closer to L4, and behaves as such 99% of the time. Tesla autopilot (free) is the typical L2. Even a direct competitor CEO called it out: “Xpeng CEO gave Tesla's FSD V14.2 high praise, saying it has reached a near-Level 4 of reassuring experience” edit: awaiting my ban :)

To be even more clear, mandatory software update, and if not done before deadline, the AV is not allowed to operate. Of course it’s pointless formality as Waymo is both software vendor and operator for its cars. But process would matter if Uber or some other third party would also operate cars with Waymo software.

why are you posting this here

This doesn’t sound like a recall in the conventional sense? Like some Tesla recalls aren’t really recalls. I assume they’re just pausing operation while they push out software updates and I would assume Waymo come back to some sort of garage every night anyway?

No article on The Verge about this. I’m sure if it was Tesla it would be front page.

All that quote proves is that the Xpeng CEO doesn’t know a damn thing about systems engineering. It’s okay - most program managers, programmers, engineers, and executives I've ever met have a hard time understanding systems engineering.

Read Rule 1.  If you don’t get it, read it again.  If you still don’t understand, come back and ask for help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

FSD, AS STATED BY TESLA IN COURT, is level 2.

I don’t understand. Im on the boat that Waymo is far in the lead but I really dislike the type of comments made here. If it was Tesla that replaced the headline you’d make the same harsh remarks you made here. So this post has nothing to do with your comment, you just wanted to trash Tesla.

(Supervised)

They never were, just took a while for the grift to be exposed.

According to the article, this recall is a software update. According to Tesla fanboys, that means this isn‘t a real recall.

It's a software/firmware update. I'm assuming that it's considered a recall as it is being done to address an issue that has the NHTSB concerned.

This sub isn’t fully of snowflakes, you ain’t getting banned for your silly opinions.

It‘s a recall that’s not a recall. I wish authorities would find an official term for it.

The FAA calls it a "mandatory service bulletin" when an aircraft requires a hardware or software update for a safety issue. That term would seem reasonable for automobile usage too. There's also something called an "airworthiness directive", which is generally for more serious issues. Again, they could use "roadworthiness directive" for similar cases for automobiles.

And this is Waymo News, yet, 90% of comments are trashing Tesla. People are desperate lol.

Yes, the simplest explanation is that he suffers the same failure to understand as most people.

No tesla is run by a fascist nazi piece of shit and doesn't lock I mean cook people inside the cybercoffin (only $100,000) waymo doesn't do any of that shit iirc

It probably uses the cameras to check the skin color of the kids to decide whether it's worth stopping for. Radar and sonar can't detect that.

That's why it's important to have good cameras and not rely on lidar, sonar or radar, which can't detect skin color.

Some clarification on the distinction between an airworthiness directive and a mandatory service bulletin. Airworthiness Directives (ADs) are issued by the FAA, and are mandatory for all aircraft operators in the US covered by the AD. When you see a story that the FAA has grounded all aircraft of a certain type, that is via AD. Mandatory Service Bulletins (MSBs) are issued by manufacturers. They are only legally required for commercial operations. Private aircraft use (individual owners, flight clubs, etc) are not required to follow MSBs (though it's usually a good idea!). Often, a manufacturer will issue a MSB first, then if the FAA decides that the issue is significant enough it will issue an AD that requires the same change.

I've got the free trial this month and it's pretty fun. Pretty sure it could drive me door-to-door the 150 miles from my home to the beach tomorrow, which is Level 4-capable technology in my book. I've got about 5000 miles on FSD over the past 2 years and haven't had any close calls or anything, just one time where it couldn't understand a road with no markings so started going the wrong way. I'm not entirely sold that the current software is sufficient to ship like Elon wants to, but it's pretty good at what it does (for the most part LOL).

yeah I came here to comment like that. "required software update" is not a "recall" per se now that we have computers and shit

They were never all about safety. It's honestly ridiculously easy to pass the tests with an EV when it's built as an EV ground up. Like, they did it without even trying. Doesn't mean they're safe in the real world. BMW also pass the tests and they do everything in their power to spend as little as possible on safety while still technically passing the tests.

Are the desperate in the room with you?

Have you never seen the film Mad Max? This is working as intended.

But you can at least use it for a little bit of eugenics. I think Leon could accept that.

Surprisingly I am going to say this is bad for TSLA stock.

Ahem, passive safety is something Tesla actually honestly did right. When Tesla started they hired Volvo collision safety head to build to build collision safety design team and safety lab. He left when Elon started heiling.

Driving like all the other drivers on the road now

What? Explain this about BMW.

Elon would have asked for an update to make the car DRIVE QUICKLY PAST THE BUS... to not give the kids time to get out and on the road (100% success guaranteed ah sorry for a second i thought i make a joke and i just recalled he DID RELEASE the MAD MAX mode after the bus thing and the "runs over kids dummies" thing... Jesus f christ. whats wrong with this country?

“What do you figure on the breakage?” “Fifty per cent”. “Yeah, I can live with that”. - Best Christmas Movie Ever

> 99% of the time The "March of 9s" is the reason why your Tesla FSD feels like it’s "99% there" but is actually years away from being a Robotaxi. People think linear progress: "It drove me to work 5 days in a row without an intervention! It’s almost done!" But in safety engineering, progress is logarithmic. Getting from 90% to 99% takes the same amount of effort as getting from 0% to 90%. Getting from 99% to 99.9% takes even more. Here is the math of the "March of 9s" applied to driving: 99% Reliability (Two 9s): The car makes a mistake 1 out of every 100 decisions. This means you crash every few miles. Unusable. 99.9% Reliability (Three 9s): The car mistakes 1 in 1,000 decisions. You crash maybe once a week. Still unusable. 99.9999% Reliability (Six 9s): This is the "Gold Standard" for aviation and human safety. You crash once in a lifetime. The Problem: Tesla is stuck in the "Long Tail" (somewhere around four or five 9s). The AI is great at the common stuff (lanes, stop signs, highway merging). But to get that sixth 9, the AI has to perfectly handle things it has never seen before: A kid in a Halloween costume crawling across the street. A mirror falling off a truck that reflects the sky. A cop using non-standard hand signals. The Difference: Waymo cheated the March of 9s by adding LiDAR. If the AI is confused by a weird reflection, the laser says "Solid object 10ft away, STOP." It doesn't need to understand the object to be safe. Tesla removed the cheats (LiDAR/Radar) and is trying to solve the March of 9s with pure computer vision. They are essentially trying to solve Artificial General Intelligence (AGI). TL;DR: The difference between 99% and 99.9999% isn't "1% more work." It’s the difference between a high school science project and the Apollo program. That’s why FSD has been "coming next year" for a decade.