Do we love or hate this

We are a monolith

[deleted]

Hate

Love or hate it, people on the whole either do not have the spine to resist, or they don't have the intelligence to resist. They will continue to obey their masters, and their masters will continue to do whatever the hell they want to without repercussions.

Hate

Most people don't own their cars for 8 years. So overall this will better for drivers. But if you are the type of person who owns your car for a decade, this is bad for you.

You will own nothing and be happy about it - The Future

Pay once or pay forever. What do you think...

I don’t get it

Until master accidentally gives us a sock, then we can be a free elf

Hate x 1000

I bought FSD outright, and planned on waiting for a FSD transfer promotion when the time came for a new one. About 6.5 years of FSD subscription equal the price of buying outright but when I got FSD it was $199/mo

Renting makes sense if it’s temporary, but renting everything is a money vacuum

So what happens if I want to offer my Tesla as part of the corporate RoboTaxi fleet?

As a customer I hate it, but as a shareholder I'm on board

That’s my thought, esp since I bought my FSD 2 years ago and wouldn’t have it if it was a subscription

I’ve been subscribing anyway so don’t care

If for $2k again, sure... Neat parlor trick. $8k, nah. The system won't even navigate through my community's gate system.... it will run into both gates. Every. Single. Time.

Exactly. There is no benefit to customers (even if it was a smaller segment), there's no net benefit here to any group or as a whole...

People who never purchased or subscribe are the only complainers

Someone on a different post said this may incentives FSD to be cheaper since it used to be $199/mo four years ago and the CFO said only 12% of owners have FSD at all

How much /mo?

Don't ask bunch of individuals what "we" think.  "We" can't answer the question as nobody is "we".

The point of doing this is to have price flexibility. If someone buys FSD for the life of their car, you can't raise the price on them. But if they're paying $99 a month, you can make it $119 next year and then $129 the year after that... Every subscription service in our lives has gotten *significantly* more expensive in the last several years, and Tesla wants in on that action.

Apparently the CFO said that only 12% of owners use FSD (both bought and subscription), it would only increase if the price went down a lot imo

Wager a bet they did this because nobody is buying it at that price. It’s easier to just shut down the option than to announce further price concessions. Big price drops on that would materially impact company valuations and future earnings estimates. This way, they don’t have to report numbers, nobody can ask the question.

We'll see how it goes. There is going to be a lot of competition in the self driving space soon. Hopefully that leads to better prices and experience for us. First impression though is I don't like it, and I don't see it working out in the long run for them. I could see a lot of people using it for trip, but then not renewing. I could be very wrong however.

How about people who already purchased FSD?

Well there’s a risk as a shareholder. When I bought it, I gave $8k. Now the company has to was 6.5 years to get that same money, assuming I never skip a month in my subscription. Money now is more valuable than money later

Valid take, we just want the freedom of choice

I didn’t even think of that, would they take away $199/mo from your fleet earnings?

I’m not sure if “only” is warranted here — did you expect the number to be higher? Or was that a direct quote so to say?

How long have you had the subscription?

The fact that it's not bound to the account, or bound to the car, is insane. If it was bound to the account, cool, it's essentially a license to use FSD and would encourage buying another Tesla when the time came. If it was bound to the car, cool, it increases the resale value of the car for when it's time to sell. The way it works now is already unnecessarily greedy, it becoming a subscription only feature ensures I will never buy another Tesla.

I’ve only had one set of gates ever register during FSD for the last 2 years, and it was a solid wood panel gate

I purchased outright, but I’m complaining that it takes away the freedom of choice

Maybe they’ll do a one time offer to add FSD to your account for life sometime in the next month

I'll bet money that the price per month will increase dramatically with Unsupervised, and it will happen relatively soon. I mean, I suppose I AM betting that money, in a sense. But I'm confident in the tech.

Idk actually, FSD is available to buy in my country, but the only thing you get is EAP which is half of the price of FSD. You can't subscribe to FSD either, so I have not clue what I should think about this😅

Don’t care

I actually wasn’t sure of the [source](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-teslas-full-104417227.html) so I looked it up, Yahoo Finance said only but it wasn’t a direct quote. TBH I thought the number would be near or greater than half.

I always wanted a Tesla growing up. And now that I'm older and have some money Elon has successfully made it so I no longer want a Tesla. Every single thing Elon touches turns to crap.

And $100/mo is just the teaser rate. They will jack up the price once it's fully ready.

I could take the majority opinion and said this is what “we” think, maybe I’m just crowdsourcing

I thought it was bound to the car now? Maybe I’m woefully misinformed. I’m hoping there will be a transfer promotion when I’m ready to upgrade, but there’s risk in something not guaranteed

Watch the next new kicker being FSD can no longer be transferred between vehicles. Peoples heads really gonna explode.

Four years ago it was $199/mo, two years ago it went to $99/mo and that’s the price right now

I may have guessed higher than 12% too, but not by much. I can’t quite see why the topic would come up particularly often, but I don’t know a single person IRL that has stated that they have FSD, which would lead me to believe that a large majority is like me and neither buying or subscribing.

Some people say that FSD will only get cheaper since they cut the price in half two years ago, but that’s also an assumption and incentive to get more people to use it

I love FSD, which is why I can't bring myself to buy another EV brand. I really like the Hyundai Ioniq 5, but I chose Tesla because I use FSD so frequently. However, I wish FSD was tied to my account rather than the car. While I don't mind buying another Tesla, the uncertainty around transfer windows makes me hesitant to invest $8,000 in something I might lose later. My other fear is that even if Tesla allows a free transfer, they might release an 'FSD v2' a brand new software that current owners have to pay for all over again, similar to how Adobe used to sell new versions of Photoshop.

No body is buying it at $8k or at $199/mo? I think you’re talking about the $8k

Nobody knows for certain, but that’s my take. But that’s because for me, it made sense to buy it outright at the time

I bought it outright, and it stays with me only for that car. Tesla has ran FSD transfer promotions before but there’s no guarantee for the future

It's bound to your account in the car. Meaning of you sell the car it doesn't go with it. If you get a new car it doesn't apply to it. Unless they are doing a promotion to transfer it you are SOL. Them moving to sub only basically garuntees they'll never do another transfer promo again.

You definitely don’t know me IRL, I love showing off FSD while saying “look mom, no hands!” while on a turn

I’m hoping my FSD will get unsupervised with my plan, but I do have ‘21 hardware

Literally 75% of my motivation was thinking how cool they were growing up… the other 25% was totaling my car before

My BIGGEST fear

That would sicken me, someone mentioned “unsupervised” and that could be the FSDv2. I would likely consider a different brand if I get screwed on purchasing FSD. I’d get a Lucid if I had Lucid money

Bought my car Dec 2024

Fingers crossed!

They’ll probably try to force it out like they did with the free supercharging for life

And rivian is charging $50/month. Tesla has a couple yeat head start, but that will quickly fade. As time goes on this will be more commoditized and tesla will need to drop the price to compete for car sales. Who would bug a tesla that requires $100/month for fsd if other manufactures charge less.

One can hope, but watch they say “with purchase of new car” and I don’t need one rn

Acting as if a majority represents all is part of what's wrong with our country right now.

Good luck getting 341.7 million people to agree on any one thing

So it will eventually go back to that huh

Yeah, that's not what anyone is talking about here.

Same here, I took advantage of the transfer promo when I upgraded to a highland. I wonder what the future holds for people like us, my guess is they will give us “free” FSD for x months and then it will be converted to subscription.

What about people who already paid for full self-driving as a part of their initial purchase price? Are they grandfathered in or was that a lie?

Odd, I recently tested it out on a gate system while showing off FSD to my mother. We drove into a gated retirement community. The car stopped at the gate and waited patiently for it to open, then proceeded on. It did the same on the way out. The gates were metal with bars. Definitely not solid.

Dang, it’s never worked for metal bars for me, but I don’t test it often now in fear of going 15MPH into a gate. It’s been a few months but it didn’t stop for my apartment or my storage unit

Oh, for sure I had my hands hovering over the wheel and my foot hovering over the brake.

It's only once if you keep the car associated with FSD forever since Tesla seems to change the policy on that on a whim, plus newer models get better FSD (HW4, etc)

This is precisely why the subscription model is king. People are not mindful. Companies like Tesla pay the best developers in the world in order to have the best FSD in the world. Salaries for the top employees in the world always increase. Why would they ever stick around if it didn't? They also produce updates and continue to innovate. While most Tesla owners do not have FSD, I'm willing to bet that all of them can afford it if the value "drove" them towards buying. Value itself defined by the individual. For me, I just don't like driving, but I can't find a driver that would accept $99 per month to drive me everywhere I want to go on the road. The $99 and even $199 is a bargain when you look at it that way. It has actually impacted my mental health and also my marriage in ways I never envisioned.

That’s crazy. It recognizes the gates at my apartment seamless.

Me 2!

Elon used our data to build a golden mine. It is a betrayal

$8k

Never going back haha

like

I thought it was inevitable.

I’m okay with it so long as we can subscribe monthly. It is far cheaper for me to subscribe for the months I take long road trips, usually 3 or 4 months per year.

Why?

Wish they took it away before I bought it in 2018.

Approve. When I am gone more than two weeks a month, I turn it off. Plus, no way I’ll have my car to justify the $8k or what ever it is now.

Doesn’t that make sense though. Fully ready as in I can sleep while it drives me to work or drive me to the airport then send itself home and come get me when I come back or send it to pick up my kid while i am at work. I’d pay more than 100 a month for that. It is all relative, supply and demand .

So the FSD that is definitely not vaporware and will come at the end of the year, this time for real guys, I swear, is now a probably absurdly overpriced subscription instead of an absurdly overpriced 1 time purchase. Can you tell how bothered I am?

100%. I’m at 99% FSD for the last 3,000 miles. Love it

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Well much like the free charging for life unicorns, you now have a car that cannot be had any other way.

I'm a fan of this. It never made sense to me that it was a massive one-time purchase. Subscription makes more sense for the long term, and they will be able to keep lowering it. I use fsd every day. It's incredible. I'm hoping that they do something for everyone on hw3 who bought it. Hopefully it carries over

Given that autopilot is now less capable than adaptive cruise control in many other EVs (especially the Chinese ones flooding the market in Australia), I think Tesla is going to have to do something a bit bolder to push uptake of FSD. I'm not remotely interested in it at the current subscription price. Maybe at $50/month (which will never happen). Maybe it should just be a standard bundled feature of all new Teslas - would boost sales and add a very compelling point of differentiation, for very little marginal cost.

I will in a small country, FSD is not really a priority for me. so I am happy with the subscription for when I travel then cancelling it.

I hate renting

What kind of stupid question is this?

This rationale leads me to believe there is a lot more at play here. Tesla isn't completely stupid so they should know that $8,000 today is worth more than $100 every month for the next 6.5 years. My guess is that they're going to increase the monthly price or they're trying to cut the amount of retrofits because they've done a cost analysis there. The writing has also started to appear on the wall to some degree, they're providing situations for HW4 owners to be able to text while driving now and taking no liability in doing so. They're getting very confident that they're approaching a new level of autonomy with all of their recent moves. I believe they intend to capitalize heavily on unsupervised soon and they don't want hundreds of people seeing that writing and rushing to pay them $8,000 today dollars when they may plan to charge $200/mo (or likely far more) for it when it finally arrives. I also believe that all this indicates they feel close enough to cut off outright purchases.

This is my thought too, it seems assumptive to think that shareholders were shortsighted in giving Elon fully autonomy in FSD plans with the metrics he needs to hit for his trillion dollar deal. There’s a bigger picture at play since one of the requirements was getting Tesla valuation at $3.5T; my guess is that it’s easier or more inflated to say that a person will spend $100-300 (whatever the FSD sub price is) every month for a 10 year valuation.

No worries! The biggest changes for HW4 practically are the camera resolution increases and handling of fringe cases (due to how the larger model the beefier hardware can handle improves it). That doesn't preclude HW3 from being able to handle a distilled inferencing model like we've seen them hinting at already. I believe they'll get closer than most people are thinking with HW3, they may actually even get close enough for it to be qualified for unsupervised. I say all this based on the perspective working with various inferencing models on a home NVR gives me, the differences for millions and millions of fewer parameters there doesn't usually work out to a significantly poorer positive identification in practice when (even when using small or tiny models vs medium or large). The bigger worry for y'all on 21 and older (in my opinion) is probably the MCU never seeing an upgrade, that Atom is already screaming so it probably won't get any better.

Do you think it’s possible to upgrade the MCU? Not asking if Tesla would do it, but is it at all possible? I’m not great with the tech details of AI and autopilot, but it sounds like hardware wise I shouldn’t be excluded from potentially unsupervised. I know I have the lidar sensors, those things are so sensitive (I’ve had to have a service appt for them twice now in 2 years)

It won't be any small feat to push the valuation to those unseen heights, this probably ultimately factors into it. Maybe they'll offer both unsupervised and supervised simultaneously but charge around $250/mo for unsupervised and $149/mo for supervised, effectively running an upsell tactic to get the people who really love the tech to spend a little more. The outright purchase looks a lot better in that context, so it's obvious why they'd remove it if this is the case.

I sincerely doubt we'll ever see it from Tesla, and unless someone gets very crafty with a custom harness and integrated voltage stepping it likely won't happen outside an official retrofit either. A one for one swap is off the table because it's just so different, unfortunately. As for the LiDAR sensors, I'm fairly certain that Tesla moved the software away from them almost entirely. They're still in the older vehicles but they only come on if you explicitly disable Tesla vision AFAIK. It's crazy you've had to have them serviced that frequently though, does it cause a fault that prevents the car from driving if they mess up?

The car only used the Lidar sensors when creeping, generally I see it when I’m going less than 10 or 15mph. It’s great for parking and charging since it tells me how far the cars or poles are, and I didn’t lose auto park nor smart summon like hw4 did. The first time was when I was bumped into in a parking lot (I wasn’t nearby) , another was I hit a cone after the car in front of me knocked it into my lane at 65MPH. Both times it knocked the sensor into the front bumper of my car and Tesla had to reach inside the car to reattach it, so my assumption is they’ve very easy to knock out of place. When the sensor was damaged, it would relentlessly scream at me when I was coming to a stop or taking off as if I was going to hit something. But I never lost my FSD abilities and didn’t notice a difference

I wonder if it would be more lucrative for them to lower the monthly payment significantly. You get streaming services and other subscriptions at a pretty standard price of 10-15 USD, right? Similar to premium connectivity. It’s surely expensive to be developing FSD but putting the subscription at a price available to the masses must surely make more money over time as more and more may adopt it.

This was my experience too. It pulled up the the gate, the gate started opening toward me, the car noticed this and backed up to give the gate more room, and then proceeded forward without any issues.

Rivian doesn't have nearly as many cars on the road as Tesla though, so they cant possibly be compiling as much data. And just because another company offers something cheaper, doesn't mean its better or that people will switch.

If it was on my account and worked on rentals and loaners then I could see the value in it being a service. But I got it with my car 3 years ago and I expect it to work indefinitely.  Pragmatically I’m surprised they didn’t do this sooner since the hardware is there whether the user pays for it or not, and the software will need support and maintenance forever.

You still have price flexibility when selling FSD outright. You can raise the price from $8000 to $8500 just as easily as you can raise the subscription price from $99 to $110/month. I think this is just another corny tactic from Tesla to try to compel people to fork over $8000 "while you still have a chance!" Just like when Tesla urged people to buy a car before they increase prices. How the hell is Tesla going turn around their shrinking sales by increasing prices? It's just cornball marketing. Given that only 12-13% of Tesla drivers use FSD, this is barely going to move the needle for Tesla finances. They're just throwing everything at the wall right now and seeing that sticks.

We just joined the family yesterday and bought FSD outright. Guy told us about this. He said people have been converting their subscriptions and buying it outright once the news dropped. Pretty cool I got in before they took it away

If it’s still $100/month, or $1200 year, and buying now is $8000, that’s about 81 months, or almost 7 years to a break even point. And you can start and stop a subscription. If you’re not planning on keeping your car for 7 years, it is much cheaper.

FSD was always a mess. They could never decide if you were purchasing it as an individual so that it would follow you from car to car, or if you were purchasing it for the car and it went with the vehicle when you sold it. Then of course there were the cases where they removed it from the car after it was sold so the next owner had to buy it again. At least this way you know where you stand. Plus, you can only subscribe when you need it, which gives you more choice. The only risk to Tesla is that people can get it for a month, realise it doesn't work, then never subscribe again.

Subscription based models are a crock of shit for the consumer.

I don't love having the option taken away but purchasing FSD outright never seemed like a good value to me. If it was guaranteed transferable to new vehicle purchases id buy without a second thought. But the assurance " it might work like we promised at some time in the future but no guarantee if it'll be before you buy your next car" always turned me right off. Autopilot already gives me 99% of what I would use FSD for

I dislike it, but I'm not compaining. It makes sense. Having FSD subscription-only earns Tesla more money in the long run, and it saves them the headache of dealing with people who own FSD for life. For example, if a user violates safety rules with FSD, it's much easier to just forcibly revoke their subscription than to lock them out of a feature they own and paid thousands of dollars for.

Hate because "You will own nothing and be happy about it" is dystopian

The gate worked for me yesterday on my 19 m3. I was shocked, almost as much as when it parked after getting to my destination. I bought fsd for $2k I'd never pay more. In my wife's Y, I'll get the subscription if we're going on a roadtrip.

Well it fsd 100 a month is kinda expensive its not like you can sleep in your car while fsd is on, also whats with the takeover immediately with glares, rain, etc sometimes you have to be ready to take over

I just wish fsd would be tied to account, I want it available in any car I drive.

If it's just a subscription, I think it's harder for someone to create a class action suit for a one-time charge of full self driving - if it'll ever be fully self driving. Or they think it's so useful they'll make a lot more money on it as a subscription. Or no one is buying it as a one time charge because they're not going to keep the car long enough to amortize the cost. Who knows.

> compel people to fork over $8000 That strategy may have worked in 2022, no one is falling for it in 2026

Lol same love freaking out my mom every time

If I could get back The money I paid (even with prorating) I would do that and switch to only paying four or monthly when I need it... I would do it in a heartbeat.

As a TSLA holder, I love it.. As a Tesla owner, I'm hoping that my 2 Teslas with permanent FSD increases in value from this when I resell them in 5 years or so.

I think the same thing I've always thought: The price is not worth it, and everything being a subscription is just a racket I don't want to be a part of.

We are ‘meh’ about this.

You just got an incurable disease, but don’t worry it doesn’t seem to have noticeable health effects. Do you love it?

it will increase when you can sleep in your car, at least in certain conditions and certain areas. Even if not, if they don’t increase the price, inflation will eventually take care of that

I bought mine 7 years ago. But at least it was only $2k then.

To be honest, I don't really have a problem with things that require constant updates to work to be a subscription. Premium connectivity, streaming, and a full self driving system that (supposedly) gets regular updates. What's stupid are when companies like BMW require a subscription for something like heated seats (which they backed off on)

Idk man, if you buy it once, Tesla has 8k of your money they can then use and invest. If you subscribe and Tesla raises their price too much, you can cancel and Tesla won't get your money. I'm okay paying 110 a month now, but any price raises and I'll probably cancel. 1) because it won't be worth it, and 2) out of spite.

"based on evidence it will get cheaper because Tesla has ONLY ever reduced the price and never raised it"

I get why people who bought it outright already are upset, especially since the subscription model is never the most economical. But, I actually prefer this new option. I tend to not use FSD most of the time (never thought it was worth $8k), but it comes in handy on road trips (which I discovered during the recent free period). I'm happy to pay for it the few months of the year when it would be useful, and keep the rest of my money in my pocket otherwise.

This probably means that the luxe package entirely disappears on ownership transfer, to include FSD.

That’s the norm actually. The transfer program doesn’t always exist.

Interesting! In Australia fsd flat fee is $10k, vs monthly subscription of $150. Very big price difference for the flat fee, and autopilot does so well that fsd at that price represents good value to me. $150/mo also lowers the barrier so I can "try before you buy"

In the tech space, it seems investors price recurring revenue as around 3x - 5x a flat one off cost. It does also give financial stability and incentive to keep improving the software, rather than 'already developed for $x million, so assuming we sell 30,000 cars, divided by that and sell it at a fixed cost". Subscription acknowledges in some way that the product development is ongoing.

My HW3 car has FSD that was guaranteed to be unsupervised. This just incentivizes me to keep the car and demand my HW upgrade.

If you bought the car and FSD as well for $7500, using the car for 8 years (as long you can have a warranty) you had an average of ~$78, even with $10k it would be ~$105. Ofc he wants to stop selling it...

You mean ultrasonic sensors? LIDAR is entirely different tech than Tesla has never put on production cars AFAIK.

It’s $8k as an option right now, so at $100 a month the break even point is 6yrs and 8months. Most people own a vehicles for less then that. So while I hate subscription, this probably makes sense. Now, that also assumes the monthly fee is always $100. Paying a flat rate would insulate you from price increases on the subscription, but you would also pay interest on the initial $8k

It stays with the car when you sell it unless they are running a transfer promo and you use it. The caveat is that if you trade it in to Tesla, they will remove it before they resell it.

Just wanted to mention that I had the interior front facing camera cleaned back in November and have not had a single FSD freakout demanding I take over since. Prior to that, I could predict with like 90% success when it would freak out on me and it just doesn’t anymore. I’m on HW3.

Unless the cost of subscription drops, I won't keep it full time, but will definitely add it for trips.

This is the trigger for me to buy a new Model Y Performance now with full FSD. I feel like it will pay off when I will eventually sell the car and if I decide to never sell the car it will pay off too. I just went to the Tesla store yesterday to check out the new colors, unfortunately they didn‘t have all of them for display.

So in five years you will be wishing you bought it instead

Autopilot for the win. Holds speed better anyways

From there stand point, if they are constantly making a pushing updates, then it makes sense the customer keep paying since that it is a running cost for them. Also, this would take FSD out of the car price, which makes the cars technically cheaper on average for the purpose of comparing. But also i think it will lower adoption, FSD is mostly useful on long trips as opposed to in-city driving. How many people will pay $99/month if they may not even do a long trip every month

I don’t really care about FSD 🤷🏿‍♂️

Depends if you use it enough. And more, how long you plan on keeping the car.

Nope…the market did 17% last year 20% the year before and 20% the year before that. Invest the $8k my friend.

I'd buy FSD for $2000, especially since it would include an update from HW3 to HW5. But I hardly need to use FSD and it doesn't work so well in our rapidly growing part of Florida. We need a way to provide feedback on the map when we had to correct FSD. And we need a response back when it's been reviewed and corrected. FSD is amazing. Cars will drive themselves. It won't just be Tesla. And what will set them apart is the relationship with the customer. I don't care if I'm having that conversation with a person or an AI. I want to know that I was heard and a response comes back. If Tesla were an Internet Protocol, they'd be UDP. I want TCP where there's a response back to know I'm heard. Also, why would I want the car to be FSD when it's ssooooooo much fun to drive on short trips. Model X 2019 dual motor with 0-60 in 2.7 sec!!! That's faster than a Kawasaki Ninja H2R and my wife and kids can ride with me. (It's important to be responsible with that -- that only gets tested on the highway on ramp when it's not congested. And I make sure my kids understand that. Have fun but be safe!) What a rush! FSD would let me focus more on the conversation in the car but it's so much fun to drive. So I MIGHT pay for FSD if it was $50 per month just out of gratitude and wanting to support Tesla. But $100 is too steep. And someday, it will be $50 (or the equivalent) because Tesla will be competing with another company offering it for that price.

I hate FSD, love my S

Lower the monthly more and I’m in!

It could be a way to normalize FSD revenue. If someone bought a car with FSD 5+ years ago, those FSD numbers are off the revenue numbers. Having X paying subscribers ongoing looks good for ongoing revenue for existing services. It also finally relinquishes paying for something that doesn't entirely exist and need to give any future date or promises finally. It could also be to simply bring the sticker price down instead of needing to add or even list $8k addition to an already lofty car price in what has also become a more competitive marketplace. When you bought a Tesla in 2018, it was likely the only one at that level on the market, and buying FSD was a point of pride. Not so much anymore.

Hate its anti consumer (less options) creates dynamic pricing possibilities. This month it's x next month it's y. If you buy it they can't change the price it's done. I don't see it not being supervised ever. I also see robo taxi failing, the big boy waymo can't get it done with sensors that robotaxi does not have. Are we 10 years away from full self driving possibly with vast hardware upgrades including sensors in vehicles and along roadways. Computers cannot currently figure out the dynamic nature of driving on roadways taking into account all the possible variables that are impossible to predict this is why humans have accidents. Now it's expected that a computer thinks out scenarios better when currently they cannot. Robotaxi is a huge money pit and investors and owners can only take so much bs.

As someone who does use FSD currently, the subscription model is more attractive.

I think ill just stick with my paid off kei truck

FSD needs to be discounted for people that still have hardware 3.

You also paid $5k for EAP though, so you basically paid $7k for FSD since you have to pay for FSD now to get most of the features that were part of EAP at the time you got it.

Hate it. Entirely.

Enshittification

I think it would and hopefully they consider doing that. I would pay up to $25/mo for FSD. I simply don't drive enough to justify it beyond that except for maybe a one off month for cross-country style road trips.

Does anyone besides Tesla love this? Subscription model just sucks for consumers

True. I mostly saw it as a way to future proof my car with the included AP3 hardware upgrade

https://preview.redd.it/1od31mtcw7eg1.png?width=693&format=png&auto=webp&s=49e77bccfd6ce2676b316e56d01a8647a6a9715f I don't get it. Reddit has been removing comments that shouldn't be removed.

I bought it for my CyberBeast… as an investor, I like the idea. Additionally, I think this is to prevent companies like Uber and Lyft from buying a bunch of cars once FSD is solved and using the cars as their own Robotaxis. Think about it, if the car can drop your kids at school and return home, why can’t you or anyone with enough money to buy as many FSD enabled cars from just bypassing Tesla altogether and figure out away to deploy them yourself?! 

I mean it sucks. FSD is a good feature but again I still would love to drive the car myself thats the whole point of having a car

This ruins the vision, that has been sold to us, of having your own robo taxi and adding/removing it from the network. Hate entirely. There is nothing good for the consumer about this.

Please tell me it’ll still in the luxe package tho right? For new purchases? They need to sell the S and X anyways since their numbers are low. It would make sense to leave luxe package and leave fsd as bought under those packages for the S and x only. Or am I entirely wrong?

Being able to buy FSD by the mile too would be interesting if it was affordably priced.

Neither till it does something for/to those who bought it.

They would never do that because subscription based software intentionally profits the most on those who use it the least.

Inflation will cause the price to increase, there's zero chance that doesn't happen. The only way the price comes down is if they intend to open it up to a broader user base and make it more affordable.

Yawning

I think they need to decide what it's for. Is it a feature of the car? Then it should be a flat cost and only apply to the vehicle it's purchased for, and stay with the vehicle when a new owner purchases it. Is it a service for a person? like Spotify? Then it should allow that driver to use FSD on any Tesla they log into and be a monthly sub. E.g. Spotify doesn't need another sub per device you use it in. At $50/mo/driver, most married households would still pay them exactly the same amount ($100/month) they want, they'd just be more inclined to have their second car be a Tesla, or to rent Teslas when traveling, which earns Tesla *more* indirectly than $100/mo/vehicle does. It even enables them to earn $50 when the spouse says no, because she/he can do that and the other can still get it. Spouse says no means $0/mo in a per vehicle sub. Right now the sub is for neither the car nor the driver really. Sort of for the car, but in a way that makes absolutely zero customers feel good about the subscription model, even if they like FSD and get it anyway (like me).

Especially for retirees that don't drive much.

Can we at least get EAP cheaper or for free in Europe?

Connectivity is the only one that makes sense (and streaming but I lump that together in 'ongoing services'). FSD stays on the car and doesn't use bandwidth, but the car doesn't last forever - so in a way, it still is a subscription since you purchase it each vehicle, and that funds development. And, of course, there comes a time FSD isn't even updated anymore on the older models - paying for a subscription once you can't even get updates is daylight robbery, and your only alternative is to lose the feature entirely. At that point, you're paying every month for a feature that costs Tesla literally nothing anymore, because it's not a live, streamed service.

But if you choose to buy at $8000, you get it for $8000. If you choose to buy at $99, then they can raise it and you pay the new price or lose it altogether - if it was a major selling point of the vehicle (which it is - IMO the only remaining selling point), then you've made a purchase of tens of thousands of dollars just to be gated out of what you actually wanted after the fact.

Yep... but if the feature is worth paying for, then wouldn't you want it? They've effectively held your own property for ransom. I'd never buy Tesla again if I had to choose between paying higher prices and losing it altogether, because FSD is the only reason I bought Tesla versus other EVs.

Honestly it’s not a big deal. I am more concerned of when FSD will be unsupervised. As of today it is the best autopilot on the market, but still far far away from unsupervised

These kind of comments from the CFO, missed the point of something like full self driving option as a purchase or subscription. They need to find a good price point where they significantly increase the uptake. If they do, they will increase their revenue and profits. They’re continuing to develop the product but they’re not benefiting financially in a significant way. This makes no sense to me. $8000 as an option that does not stay with the owner of the vehicle is going to be very limiting to uptake. Clearly, a monthly price of $100 is not driving enough support so try $75 a month. Some revenue is better than no revenue. Personally, I think a yearly price of $500 or $50 a month as a subscription will be a sweet spot for them, just my humble opinion

They need an annual subscription model for $999.00. That $100 per month doesn’t rub me right…so I rarely do it. I did do it for a few months once…but canceled.

Tesla and Musk are just like DJT. Lying assholes.

What a shit move WOW

Enshitafication strikes again!

I wasn't buying it at those prices either way. I would only buy it for less than $20 per month(only when needed) or if it gets associated with Tesla Insurance and then insurance rates are based on percentage of time on FSD. So ... For me it didn't matter.

Yes this gives price flexibility but it also protects Tesla if they never achieve true autonomy on HW3 or 4 vehicles. They may be legally on the hook when they sold the product outright for hardware upgrades. I do believe that we will see tiers of fsd in the future, plus this model continues to provide recurring revenue.

It's not a "huge selling point" if more than 80% of Tesla buyers don't use FSD. And, as many people have learned, if they bought FSD at $8000 (sometimes $12k, once as high as $15k) they didn't necessarily "own" it as Tesla has only periodically allowed you to transfer it to a new Tesla. And if you sell your Tesla vehicle back to Tesla, they don't compensate you for FSD and they then delete it from the car. Imagine being someone who paid $15k for FSD in 2023 only to never have FSD truly come into fruition during the time you owned the car. You then sell it and either get paid an extra $1-2k for it on the used market, while being unable to transfer it to your next Tesla vehicle - instead you'd be paying another $8k. It's terrible value.

With FSD v14, my use of FSD is around 90%. Prior versions closer to 10%

I used to think it could be a great thing. But the more I think about it, the worse it gets. First of all, sure, Teslas with FSD (Permanent) might go up in value due to the fact that it has actual value. But now for the downsides, there's a lot. New customers wont be able to purchase it outright. Furthermore, the fact that they're going this route means that they don't want customers to be able to pay for the feature for life. Which basically means that they likely wont allow users to transfer FSD to new cars in hope of one day having no cars with permanent FSD on the road. To me that's the worst, I bought the FSD in hope that I could keep it for life and transfer it over time to new cars. I bought it in 2020 with a Model 3, then in 2021 (couldn't transfer it), bought a new 2021 and had to pay for FSD again. In 2023, I was lucky enough that I could transfer my FSD to a new Long Range Model 3. But now it makes me feel like I'll be stuck with this car until I can't drive it.

I would like to see the usage data when the give out a free month. If people aren’t using it when it’s free, I doubt lowering the cost changes anything

Lower it to 49.99/month and theyll get so many more ppl subbed

We have FSD, we just don’t have regulatory approval. If you disable the nanny features, the car is fully autonomous.

If you disable the nanny features you can text and FSD all day. Or sleep. Or watch movies. The car has the capability, the nanny features are artificial limiters.

It’s a garbage decision and if something happens to my car and I can’t transfer the FSD to another one I’ll buy a different brand. On the other hand if I could just keep my license for life I’d never buy another brand.

Well in theory continuous upgrades to whatever it takes for unsupervised FSD. AI 8?

There is going to be a huge leap in resource requirements for the product, he does not want to be on the hook for older hardware that cant keep up. This way, you just don't offer the subscription for the new version, but by selling it - I think you have a lot more obligation long term.

Right, but I feel there’s a difference between circumventing a control and the developer of said control situationally disabling it. It speaks more to developer confidence to me for them to disable it at all.

> You still have price flexibility when selling FSD outright. You can raise the price from $8000 to $8500 Not for the users that paid the 8k upfront. Companies like costco are valued so highly because of their large subscription base (their membership). Wouldn't make any sense for costco to sell a lifetime or (10+) year membership, because they believe that people will adjust and pay for future membership increases.

Indifferent to be honest. I just can't see buying it outright with a 7 year ROI particularly with as fluid as things are and not knowing when actual FSD will be achieved or with what hardware.

Rivian is charging for equivalent to Teslas autopilot, which is free. Won’t be FSD.

Right, but then the subscription goes up to $199 or even $299 month when fully autonomous comes into play. Everyone’s going to want it then and now will be sol paying whatever the cost will be. I’m just grateful everything was included with mine and will keep it forever. (LSC, FSD & PC)

It’s for regulatory and liability purposes. Humans have a non-accident rate of 99.7%. If the Tesla FSD can match or exceed that, I’d consider it full self driving. From what Tesla data suggests, FSD is at 99.9%. So really the only thing holding us back, are the laws and expectations. Who’s responsible for that 0.001% of times?

Model S comes with FSD standard, if I’m correct…will the price drop $8k? 🤔

was it ever transferable? one of the biggest red flags about it being a bit of a scam

You are overlooking the fact that Tesla generally ties ownership of FSD to ownership of the vehicle. They don't always let you transfer it to a new Tesla (if/when you buy one). And if you trade it in they delete it from the vehicle. With your logic, it wouldn't make any sense for Tesla to sell cars, they should only lease them or only rent out cars on a subscription basis.

> You are overlooking the fact that Tesla generally ties ownership of FSD to ownership of the vehicle. Which bolsters my point further. If you offer a one time FSD purchase, you're further incentivizing your customers to not upgrade and purchase a new vehicle as they also just announced that they are removing the ability to transfer FSD to newer cars purchased. Removing the lifetime FSD offering just signals to me that Tesla believes their FSD product to be valuable, and that they believe the take rate will move up from here.

However, those who purchased FSD and cannot transfer it to their next car, probably will feel getting a bit ripped off, and probably wouldn't pick Tesla for their next vehicle. Rivian, Hundia, Kia, Mustang... May be viable options especially if you are not going to get FSD.

Auto manufacturers want car ownership to be temporary

so we can forget about transferring it to our new Tesla ...

I don’t care. The price was ridiculous.

Tell that to the people that lost access to a movie they loved because they "bought" it on a streaming service and it was removed from that service. People are going back to physical media. And I understand why.